DONATI CLINIC...Ho Lee She Heist

[FuseU1]

Donati owns us all.

He is a sick, sick individual. One serious exponent of the instrument. A remarkable, die-hard virtuoso; an unbelievable Olympian of contemporary rhythmic approach on the drumkit; a true, consumate, 'bona-fide' artist. Oh, & did i say he was a great player?

He gives new meaning to the term "assault & batterie." And he is what the term "heavy metal" is really all about, now [even though he is also so much more.]

Okay. Here's the deal On The Virg clinic, the first for me seeing him live & up close, altho I've been listening to his first 2 solo discs & PX for about almost 1-1/2 years now, AWA his 2nd vid & the MDF '97 vid.
I can sum it up with just one ledger:
[img]eek.gif[/img]
But then I knew what I was in store for.
He is what he is. Virg is, quite simply, "Of the 'Vinnieness'." [...notice the key word here is, "of..." ;c), AFA the understanding & application of odd-time, polyrhythmic patterns, & modulation]...

A lot of guys state their 'lack of preference' for his style, or the music composing-&-arrangement style of, say, a Planet X type of band; you know, the writing around the construction of more complex multi-layered rhythm[s], seemingly ...but it is what it is. The fact is, he can do the stuff. [& you never hear any1 say "he can't play" or "doesn't have chops or technique/ability" ;c)] One thing is sure. It is clear that he's earned his "Badge of Honor."
I found it an enlightening clinic.
But then I knew what I was in store for. The guy's on fire, broski's.

I'm telling you - he is a force to be reckoned with. I really can't expound on him any more than any of the other guys in here already have [who've written about his clinics], such as Dij, Peter, Pocket, or others...

Very informative...went into notated details of some of the standard rhythmic musical concepts behind his arsenal of multi-layered/polyrhythmic/odd-time/metric-modulation abilities...man does he have some wicked polyrhymic capabilites. & in a way that i don't even think Vinnie [the 'Mighty Yardstick' ;c)] does, even tho Vinnie CAN do THE STUFF in his own way, & he [VC] definitely has the understanding & capability of the concepts. Perhaps VC is a little more 'musical' at it? VC does have that certain special undefinable touch...Oh, Lord, I don't know...that's a close one...splittin' hairs...diff colors of the vast incredible rainbow...

Of course, more than half the room [mostly the really young metal guys] burst into cheers when he'd do the fast chops stuff, like the DB flurries b4 coming back to the snare flam: "BrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRR-KACK!" [img]wink.gif[/img] , or when he played really fast rudimentally based chops & the like, & the incredible twirling showmanship to boot [only Lang & Emory, & maybe Minnemann, Rabb & Mayer come to mind here]...but it's when he lays into his multi-pulsed, layered, contrapuntal grooves & then fills, look the heck out! THAT is the real testament to his greatness [AWA the "chops" & speed]. Altho i enjoy the greasy-gut-bucket groove of say Chambers/Erskine/Gadd/Jeff/Abe/Thompson AW, there's NO denying that Virg is at the forefront of musical dexterity on the kit, PERIOD. And his meter is DEAD ON THE MONEY. But we all already know that. ;c) I enjoy listening to the results of his wonderful dedication.

Then there was the younger guy who asked V if he listened to Portnoy for inspiration & ideas, & aft a short pause, V answered politely with "Actually, no"...& half the room snickered. I felt badly for him. But V answered politely but matter-of-factly again, stating that that was not meant to be a slam, but rather that at his own [V's] present stage of development, all he had time for was his own thing, those that he is working on now [shudder to think], that perhaps if he was 16 or so or at that lad's stage now, he would've found that as his prefernece for learning & development. He remarked something like "there are plenty of rhythmic permutations to keep me busy with & of myself." And then you get the poor guy who, aft V has just handed out a notation sheet & gone through explaining the mechanics of some of what he just did, asks him the redundant "how does he approach his concepts of breaking down those complex grooves" again... [img]redface.gif[/img]

He does these wicked, wicked grooves where he plays a differently metered ostinato in eack limb, or two limbs while keeping a complex pattern undercurrent with the feet on hats & kick[s], & bring it up from slow to uptempo. Then, he'll switch the patterns up by reversing those patterns to the opposite limbs without so much a waver of the time! From side to side & top to bottom. And then hitting wicked permutations of kicks/hits so that the placement naturally makes it sound as if it's speeding up & slowing down, while playing complex DB patterns or ostinatos in between the hits. Yeah, right, V-man. Ho Lee She Heist. These are no beginners or intermediate player concepts/grooves either, pal.

After a lenghty blistering solo intro, building from a whisper to a crescendo'ed roar, he then played along to some tracks ["Now that I'm warmed up, I'd like to..." [img]eek.gif[/img] ], including the one called Quantum Factor & also PX's Ataraxia, & went into a detailed explanation of the grooves, & the subdivisions & patterns. This guy is a mathematical whiz on the drumkit. But he makes them sound musical. It IS what it IS. Oh, & he uses dynamics AW, altho he is primarliy known for his aggressive attack on the set. He did also say that he listened &/or listens to Philly Joe, Deej, Haynes, Elvin, Tony, Vinnie, Weckl, Chambers...go figure..."whooda thunkit."

He also held private L's for $100 a pop & a master class for $35,...a little steep for me, but there's no doubt you can learn some really valuable things from this monster.

I have little doubt that if Zappa were still here with us he would've come around to having Virgil on AT LEAST one of his albums...

If you walk away from one of his clinics without even a tinge of a nervous shiver, you'd better check your pulse, because you're dead. Both the Power Drumming vid & MDF '97 were killer; but to understand the magnitude of this guy is to see him live. ESP. in clinic or a PX/OTV/SYI type of playing situation, with bandmates. He does some of the sickest independence/inter-dependence grooves i have ever seen, bar none. Marco [& Mangini] are the closest thing to it. But Virg is the cremme de la cremme[sp?]. If you have yet to see him live in clinic, then you had better reserve your judgement of him until that time. Don't even begin to talk to me about critiquing this guy's playing - you are almost guaranteed to pee your pants when you witness him in clinic up close. Unless you can pull off the stuff he plays, zip it.

I took a really good fusion guitarist friend of mine [who's into Diorio, Martino, Holdsworth, Henderson, Gambale] to it, & after the show, we had to tie a sling under his chin to keep it from dragging the pavement on the way out, until we could get him to a plastic surgeon.

With Virg, it's really not about the chops or DB per se, altho he def has the chops to kill, but it's his unbelievable rhythmic skills, & the transferred physical abilty to carry them out, a result of YEARS of hard practice & training on the kit.

It was enough that we had Vinnie & Weckl to study & contend with; but now, Virgil also...sheesh, WTHeck...

If you are a serious drummer, it is a clinic NOT to be missed, FOR SHORE - because this guy is seriously, & i do mean seriously, heavy.

--------------------------------

[Said in his best high-pitched, sly voice]:

"They're just numbers, fractions...you don't have to be frightened of them...." ;c)
- Virgil, 4/04

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 23, 2004 02:33 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[quitou]

you certainly have a way with words Fuse...very entertaining review [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 21, 2004 10:40 AM: Message edited by: quitou ]</font>

[blake1]

Great Review Fuse !

[DrumBob]

I too got to witness Virgil live and in person for the first time. He stopped here in Wisconsin for what I think he said was the first of his upcoming clinics. So this was either good or bad as he was either fresh or rusty. Either way he put on an incredible clinic. I'd never seen or even really heard him play before, since I don't own any of the records he's on, and, frankly, don't really dig the style of music he usually plays. But the stuff he pulls off on the kit is undeniably advanced and sounds pretty damn good too. Fuse, as you said, he plays polyrhythmic stuff that Vinnie maybe can't pull off -- I've never heard Vinnie play a double paradiddle between his RH & RF against a paradiddle between his LH & LF while accenting various beats with the LH within the paradiddle. And then swapping the combinations without stopping. [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] But at this point I think it's about what Virgil, Vinnie, (insert heavyweight drummer here) CHOOSES to do rather CAN or CAN'T do. All of these drummers have shown that they have the dedication and talent to achieve pretty much whatever it is that their particular muse directs them to. But for each, that muse is different and so they will sound different and have different strengths. But they all excell at what they want to excell at. At the clinic someone asked what Virgil thought of seemingly like-minded individuals like Lang and Minneman, and Virgil said, "Well, what do you think of them?" Good answer, because that's what matters. Virgil, Lang, Minneman, etc. are each doing their own thing and that's as it should be with anyone, including us fans of great drummers like Vinnie, Virgil, Lang, etc.

Another interesting thing raised at the clinic was the topic of stick-twirling. During his solo he did a bunch of stick tricks while standing up and playing various patterns on the toms and cymbals. Afterwards someone asked if the stick tricks contributed to the sound aspect of drumming or if it was purely for visual effect. At first Virgil said that it was just for visual effect, but as he was answering he was kind of thinking out loud and then changed his mind a bit. He said that stick tricks would have an effect on the sound because it would be almost impossible to come up with the same patterns and combinations and hitting cymbals on the up-twirl (or whatever it's called, I'm not a twirler [img]tongue.gif[/img] ), etc. without actually doing the twirling and whatnot and thinking how you're thinking while twirling. The twirling is just another thing that defines who he is as a drummer and effects how he sounds, looks, and thinks about drumming.

So anyway, it was a great clinic. Go see him if you can. Now I just have to see him with a band and see in person what he can do in that setting.

Incidently, speaking of clinics, I also recently saw Ed Shaughnessy. He gave an hour clinic and then played an hour set with a 12 piece brass section and bass and piano. It was inside a drum shop and he said we were witnessing something that didn't happen too much anymore -- an acoustic set by a big band. No amps, no mics, just drums banging away and horns blowing right in your face. It was very cool. Great clinic and a great guy. He had a couple good stories about Buddy Rich and the pranks Ed played on him (replacing a drumhead with one made from papier-mache [img]confused.gif[/img] , and switching a cymbal with a dummy one that shattered on impact [img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img] ) See him too if you get the chance.

[FuseU1]

I know I typed a scat-load, as I rarely ever do that [img]wink.gif[/img] , but I just had to get that out.

It's no wonder Weckl remarks, "can you imagine how much that guy had to practice to pull those things off?," & Chambers said "he's sick" & also says to Virg himself about Tony, "I think you scared him" [img]eek.gif[/img] ...

I know it's "'only' drumming," but i was in the presence of musical greatness that day.

PS - Shaughnessy is great, swings his butt off in big band style; i bet that was cool experience, horns & all, & acoustic/ambient. Those little anecdotes were funny AW, doing that to Buddy, of all people! Good story.

Cheers.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 21, 2004 03:29 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[Plaid]

Fuse, I think you have automatically been crowned "The Official HOD Journalist".

See if Steve needs to send you anywhere. [img]wink.gif[/img]

P.S. - I hope Virg comes to Texas at some point. Most guys ignore this area. [img]frown.gif[/img]

[XNavyDrummer]

Great review Fuse-man! Thanks!

I've got to see this guy.

[GrooveYESmam]

Chops are great. Limbs playing all different things? Yeah, cool, nice trick. Check out Pete Zeldman for that. Donati=Vinnieness? hmmm. NOT.
What's the main goal of any drummer? What's the role of the instrument? Well the goal should be to play music as much as possible. When people hire you for albums because you make the music feel amazing, well then you're in.
The role of the instrument? I think it's play a down dirty wide groove, first and formost. Maybe some of that practice time should have been alotted to playing an R+B groove over and over.
Vinnie has a great feel and plays music. Virgil like Dom Famularo can go join a circus. Sorry not my bag.
I've heard the guy play. Stiff icy grooves aren't where it's at. I guess that's why he's not on any hit albums. Gadd is god. Keltner is King. Pelton is a prince. Porcaro left him the throne. Abe Jr is our Bonham. Guy's that do mostly clinics are the court jesters. Let's play music!

[Groovemeister]

Wow!

How elloquent GreasyGroove! I totally agree!

Vinnie has the most incredible technical facility but grooves as well as anyone, (if not better). I have yet to stop myself from yawning watching Virgil!

He's fast no doubt, and he can make his legs and arm do different things to make drummers think "WOW, this guy's incredible". BUT...

I've just been blessed enough to play with one of England's top bassists on a session for a programme on the BBC, and he summed it all up for me when he said,

"Yeah, drummers are weird like that, I'd never hire him to play on a track for me, I prefer someone who can really smoke a kit without all the effort and speed s**t"

Bottom line, Virgil impresses drumers for sure, but not really the wider musical world. He's to be applauded for exploring the boundries I suppose, but it leaves me cold. As Steve White keeps saying, "There's the drum industry for drummers, and the music industry for musicians." Think about where Virgil lay in that schematic compared to players like Abe, Vinnie, Lang, Bissonette and the like...

[JDouglee]

Didn't Vinnie say recently he likes to go hear Virgil at the Baked Potato to specifically get his "butt Kicked?"

I'm not a drummer, but it seems to me comparing Virgil with Jeff P, Vinnie or Kelter is pointless. It's a different thing altogether. It's like comparing Clapton & Steve Vai. There's no ONE WAY to make music, I don't care what instrument you play.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 21, 2004 06:02 PM: Message edited by: JDouglee ]</font>